No matter how many people speak against it, they just dismiss those people as automatically, "not religious enough"
If you don't wear a black hat and riot on Shabbos, you don't count.
If you are women, you don't count.
In fact, if you are not me and my cronies, you're MODERN Orthodox, better yet, you are Conserv- I mean Reform, I mean you are not affiliated at all... So, why would I listen to someone un-affiliated on advice about Hashem.
Mind you, this is what they say to the black and white with an oversized suede kippah kollel guy but, no black hat. After all, surely, he is not good enough. In fact, they would say it to a black hat if he said that it was better to run a Shabbos home with the family than to be rioting in the streets.
Michal,
ReplyDeleteWhenever someone whose a convert speaks in such ways it only enforces the stereotypes. You should study more Torah to learn WHY some (the minority of charedi) in Jerusalem are protesting before speaking like an emotional am haaretz, adding support to Beis Shammai that you are nothing but a scab for Israel to burden. The fact is that without the holy charedi in Jerusalem the state of Israel wouldnt have continued to exist. (see basic written Torah, Vayikra is a good place to start) While I dont agree with the violent protestors, (the minority ) the majority of charedi are holy and pious who are the old yishuv having lived in Jerusalem and eretz Hakodesh since the days of the Rishonim. So show some respect! And the next time you quote a Rav before the turn of the century just remember they are charedi!
If you think that rioting on Shabbos is acceptable, then you need to study the Holy Torah some more. The Holy Torah states over and over again to keep Shabbos. Since when does Shabbos, a day of rest, mean rioting in the street? You actually prove my point. I don't agree with you that it's ok to riot, therefore, I'm not a real Jew. That's why you and all these other rioters cannot be advised no matter what. You need to show some respect. Those ravs you are talking about would never endorse this sort of behavior.
ReplyDeleteI have a question: if so many chareidi are pious and have nothing to do with these riots, they why don't they speak out against them? Nobody does. Again, if you don't agree with the rioting, you are Modern, no Conserv-no Refor-WAIT! If you don't agree with the rioting you are not a Jew, you are a scab of Israel.
I'm aware, fully aware that they upset because a parking lot is supposed to become open on Shabbos. This does not justify their behavior.
Ok I will tackle one issue at a time and B’H we can come to an accord. You are a member of the Jewish people, mispocha even, so don’t you want to learn what your charedi family believes and why they do what they do before you trash them? If you are a Torah observant Jew then it is your obligation according to the Torah to give a FRUM Jew the benefit of the doubt. Ask a charedi Jew why and then if you disagree follow Torah and rebuke them once. Don’t attack them with insults and threatening character assassinations by give them mussar. Lately there has been little mussar amongst frum Jews, and the only words I have heard coming out of the mouths of frum Jews are akin to what we hear from ignorant secular Jews or worse yet anti-semites.
ReplyDeleteI will happily reply to your statements but only after I think I can even communicate with you. So please tell me why you think these things? “If you don't wear a black hat and riot on Shabbos, you don't count. If you are women, you don't count. In fact, if you are not me and my cronies,”
And please tell me why if you don’t trust the Arab media to properly report Israeli news, you trust the medinah media to report events surrounding Charedi Jewry?
I will respond to your statements (charedi cronies, if not the minority then why don’t they speak out etc..) after I can find some common ground with you and we aren’t tearing one another down!
In the meantime here is a link from VIN on the subject which I think is beneficial to the discussion.
http://www.vosizneias.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/realahavasyisroel1.rtf
Have a good day!
-b-
I think we need to cut these people some slack. If your family was living in an neighbourhood for 100 years and anti religious people moved in who felt you are backwards and have ridiculous customs and started enacting laws interfering with your way of life
ReplyDeleteIE Parking lots used for shabbat, atempting to bribe Yeshivas by offering them large sums of cash to offer secular classes ect
These people just want to be left alone. Women aren't looked down upon, they are simply seperated to prevent mingling and (G-d forbid) improper relationships.
I supposed if they felt that protesting on Shabbat was somehow related to kiddush hashem for resisting anti religious encroachment in their communities they would probably justifiy it that way
personally I dont agree as destruction is a melacha
However I do think they are within their rights to be upset that a government founded by athiests and anti semetic people (See Herzels Journal for instance)
Would you be upset if Christian missionaries established a centre in the middle of your neighbourhood and started influencing your children by doing things contrary to Judaism while claiming it is ok, IE driving on shabbat?
I would be offended and want to protect my Children. hopefully not by blowing things up, but you understand why the Chassidim in Meir Sharim are upset. If you look in the Israeli media they are demonized as terrorists all the time and backwards.
The Israeli left says they are a threat to Zionism, I have heard quotations saying that religious people are the anti thesis of Judaism.
The Founders of Zionism also sought to replace Judaism with Nationalism, not only that but by making Jews a state like gentile states while adopting gentile culture. Herzl felt Jews should convert to Catholism.
The Israeli government has also granted permission to gay pride parades in Jerusalem.
All these things are completly against Judaism, am I suprised people are venting their anger by trying to scare people away, not really. Is it halackally ok to do so, I don't know