Contradiction of interest

I have been thinking a lot lately about how there is a huge contradiction in Judaism about how a woman should be dressed. Recently, I've been privy to many women's opinions on tznius. Over and over again is ground into women to be covered up. But by the same token, it's very important for Jewish women to be pretty. Is it? Well, when men are asked why they don't want a second date with women, time and time again, they complain that they are not attracted to her. They complain that they shouldn't be expected to have kids with a woman that they are not attracted to.

Look here at this man saying what men shouldn't have the courage to say in a public forum:
http://www.endthemadness.org/ under POSITIVE dating experiences, go back to November of 2009 to see how "Jacob" writes, "

Posted by:	Jacob
Subject:	In Defense of the Dress Size Question
Body:	Dress size is not a madness question! Most of the girls who have lower dress sizes are more attractive. I am not attacted to girls with high dress sizes, so why should I force myself to marry someone I am not attracted to? It seems to me that most size 2 girls are more attactive (to me at least) in comparison to girls who are size 6. Eva Longoria, known to many people as the most beautiful woman in America, is a size zero. Men look good when they are big and strong. For women, it is the opposite, and that means a low dress size." Yeah, well, I wonder how "big and strong" Jacob is to be making demands and here is the ultimate point. Eva Langoria does not dress modestly. If all Jewish women were size 0 or 2 (don't even get me started on calling size 6 unattractive) and running around half naked, I guess the guys would be attracted to us, right? Personally, it was easier to stay small when I wasn't dressing tzanuah. There's not really an incentive to work hard to be tiny since I'm supposed to be covering it up anyway. That brings me to a whole 'nother point. I can't even tell you how many men have asked me to dress in a manner not tzniusdik for them.

He'd like a Jewish gym rat health nut, please....

I started a discussion on Frumster in the message board after noticing that several men requested things like a woman who is, "trying to being conscious about her health and her appearance." The men were defensive (nope, no surprise there) and at least one woman agreed with me. My latest comment follows.




Chaim 1, yes, in this 2011, people are polite enough to try to demand things in such a way that isn't so abrasive. Men want a thin woman and so they ask for a woman who is healthy. That's exactly my point. Often when these Jewish women are healthy, they are eating the uber healthy foods like almond milk and they are vegetarians and such.



I have never seen another Orthodox girl at the gym. I see muslim girls and plenty of secular/israeli women. Perhaps, they are wearing pants at the gym so I am not spotting them. I just know that I asked on my FB status a couple times for someone to go to the gym with and I've gotten responses from non-Jewish friends. Once, I went by myself and I was walking out and ran into an FFB friend who said she would go with me that she had actively looked for someone to go with before and couldn't find anyone. None of the Jewish girls wanted to go to the gym.




As for the comments that it's the mothers not the guys asking for a size 2, this is hogwash. There was a discussion of this over on Endthemadness at one point. Some guy said something like, "well, Eva Longoria is the most beautiful woman in the world and she's a size 0 so I'm being generous if I'm willing to consider a 2." UGH!!!!



Another thing is that at one point, Marilyn Monroe was considered the most beautiful woman in the world. She was a 12, the same size as I am right now. This is considered the size that most women are. I have actually been as low as a 5 (which is pretty small) and as big as a 16, even within the last five years.



Finally, I MUST address Sigmond Freud"s (male-66) question, "According to Halacha, are we allowed to marry someone we see as unattractive?" Siggy, there is a big difference between finding someone unattractive and requiring someone that you say you are attracted to. People, especially men, find that they are only "attracted" to someone that will make them look good. It is ridiculous when men in their 50's and 60's are deciding they can only be attracted to a woman 20 or more years younger than themselves. They just want to brag and parade around a trophy wife. The obligation to marry is upon the man and a man must marry a woman that will agree to marry him. This is what the gemara says. In the secular world, we see that men will have a chubby girl on the side but not bring her around his friends and family and make her his girlfriend. I"m sorry to break it to you, but this is the standard. Men are attracted to most women, however, many women they are attracted to, they would be embarrassed because their friends would not be jealous of them. To you men I say, grow a freaking backbone!!!!!

Responding to a response about the dress size question

Over on the ETM-End the Madness discussion group a man has come in and stated that he is only attracted to a size 2. This guy points out that Eva Langoria is deemed the most beautiful woman in the world and SHE is a size 0. Aren't we women lucky that men are only asking for 2 instead of 0? How much do men really even know the difference between these sizes, anyhow?

My response, as posted on the ETM board:
I want to point out, there are other things that can add or take away from attractiveness. If a woman is a size two but she has nasty skin, this will be a contributing factor. What about youth? What about a woman who is 34 and yet looks like she is twenty complete with radiating skin and hair that looks like spun gold. Oh, but, if she is a not a size 2, it's out of the question. There are a lot of sizes between 2 and 22.

I recommend that people be realistic and think about what they have to offer and what they can't offer. Then they should think about what is most important to them and prioritize. If "2" is what's most important, then men are being shallow and should be ready for a girl who treats them bad because many women will lose weight just so they can be a demanding little princess. I'm not saying every small girl is like that, but, it's something to consider.

Another last tidbit, what two looks like on every girl is different. I have a friend who is a two and she still looks big. On most girls, however, they would look immaciated. How about saying, "not too big..." or pretty face is more important than size. Perhaps, size IS more important than a pretty face.

To sum up, it's a give and take. All singles have to be realistic. Many women, want rich, very rich and goood looking....