I see that my post about EJF has turned into a discussion of dating... which is likely my fault. However, as I just clicked off on two comments for the post that had to do with dating, I thought I would create a post for this discussion.
Background: I have tried SYAS, Frumster, and now JDate.
When I tried SYAS, I couldn't even get Shadchans to accept me into their network. They would respond with a pat response that they don't have anyone for me, therefore they will not accept me into their network. The influence members of the community is partly to blame for this. Many of my friends were telling me I was so schtark and I need a rabbi or a Yeshvish guy. In the end, I started to see how the yeshivish world looks down their nose at converts. So, should join SYAS again but, when I try it won't accept my payment. It says the addresses don't match. I've tried every possible combination they might have for my address and I have given up.
Frumster: I rejoined Frumster for a month since I'm off school and I have a little extra time. I find the men don't call or one called-grilled me about my conversion and my family and why are they dead and all that crap I post about and then he never called back to ask me out.
JDate:The reason why I tried JDate is that someone recently told me she got married. So, where did you meet him? JDate. He's observant? Yes.
I don't know... One of the profiles on there is someone I sorta know who I know is observant. He has since told me, he's not an actual member. I suspect that most of those profiles are men who don't pay. Oh, well, before I let my month expire, I should re-Email the guys I was interested in who do keep kosher and Shabbos and leave them my Email in case they ever do pay for a month. I should advise the same on my profile in case there is anyone intelligent enough to follow directions.
Hey, what is up with the sentence fragments that the men send to me? I do not reply to them. Frumster says I should reply to any messages because it's basic derech eretz and the person took the time to write to me. However, I feel that if they didn't take the time to form so much as ONE complete sentence, I don't owe them a reply-not even a pat response of disinterest. Besides which, such response usually causes them to argue. (which is when they, of course, suddenly speak English.)
I know I'm coming in late to his discussion, but do you feel that the yeshivish world looks down their noses at converts in general, or just in regards to shidduchim?
ReplyDeleteAny time we dare to think we know enough or deserve respect. They will be happy to have us for a Shabbos meal if they can use it to make themselves superior and reassure themselves that we aren't good enough. They ask weird nosey questions and pretend to come off as trying to get to know us. Perhaps my radar is just too good.
ReplyDeleteYou, however, are a guy and they treat you better. They usually treat the men very well. The women, they think we all converted for marriage but, then they get mad when we don't get married and we aren't interested in a guy who works on Shabbos or has a Facebook profile indicating he's interested in "random play."
The men don't want to get married. They are just looking. What do you expect me to do about it? So, I was told I should read books on how to manipulate men into marriage. I said, "I don't have time!" I was told that, "college is a problem." Because I don't want to read books on how to manipulate? I will never have the time for such a thing as I find it repulsive. I asked, "so I should drop out of college and read books on how to manipulate men?" "um, well, just find time to try to get married, ok?"
Also, in response to your comment, most men are saying their families don't want them marrying converts. Pass the buck... a man over 30 who is not married? His mother shouldn't be so picky!
Yikes...OK...let me clarify, by the way - I'm an FFB (or, as some would say, FOB - "fact of birth" I'd like to think I've risen above that and actually DONE something with that fact. Maybe).
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry to hear that you've been treated that way. People in general, are stupid - not just to converts. I don't know if that's particularly reassuring, but people like to be nosy and bossy, etc.
Kudos to you for not reading books on how to manipulate men into getting married!
As far as dating converts...I can only share my opinion. In general, I check out any girl before I go out. I want to make sure that it's something that might actually work out. Whenever there's an interesting story, it always needs more checking - even if (as in your case) it's an "interesting" that can be a very GOOD interesting! And sometimes, that's tough to do, either because people don't want to share information, or because I just don't know anyone well who knows the girl...
Or because (sigh), people worry that I might be offended by being suggested a convert. So I guess you have a point...
Re: people's families being picky, I agree. I always advise my friends (if their parent's help with their shidduchim) to make sure that everyone is on the same page.
All I can say is that to my mind, you deserve a HECK of a lot of respect. For who you are, for all that you've done, and continue to do. Especially in the face of all the stupidity that's out there.
And by the way...no need to post this if you don't want to. Just sharing my thoughts with you.
"Re: people's families being picky, I agree. I always advise my friends (if their parent's help with their shidduchim) to make sure that everyone is on the same page."
ReplyDeleteAre you on Frumster? Log in. Go to "Connect" choose Forum. Read the string, "A Guy's Lamentation: Why did I delay dating??"
Another thing that made me add that comment was that someone tried to set me up. The guy said, "my family wouldn't want me with a gyoress. I don't mind." Sometimes, I think they lie and just don't want to say it bothers them. Also, there is the problem that shidduch dating reduces people to how they look on paper and everyone knows they will be asked things like, how old is she? What does she do? What does her family do? To say, "she makes me laugh and makes me happy." People know everyone will run around speakng lashon hara about them.
On a side note: Orthodox Jews gossip more than any other group. It's usually those who scream LH! who gossip the most.
This isn't about Jewish dating, this is about Jewish internet non-dating.
ReplyDeleteSo, true... that's problem.. they're just looking... window shopping... no intent to purchase...
ReplyDeleteI know lots of people who are very careful about not speaking lashon hora. Granted, they're not screaming LH! (they're not really the type to scream much, in general). I'm not denying that plenty of frum people speak lashon hora (I wish I could exclude myself), but somehow, I doubt that orthodox jews are gossiping more than others...just based on my own experience.
ReplyDeleteYeah - internet dating is quite the biased sample.
As far as reducing people to pieces of paper? Perhaps...but I'd like to know that I'm looking for the same thing as her (after dating one girl who was looking for a long-term learner (I'm not), and another who didn't want her husband to learn in kollel at all, I can see the necessity even more). Honestly, the only reason I care about what she does, and her family, etc, is so that it's easier for me to talk to people about who she really is, on a deeper level.
A new site called SuperTova, founded with the goal of stopping intermarriage/assimilation (and as such, is being financed by the founder's personal fortune and donations he can round up; the site is 100% free)
ReplyDelete