he saga continues.... This just came out of the post comments from that Almight FFB isnt' that Almighty... post. This guy just doesn't give up. He has to be right. So do I, though.
chaim1 said...
You didnt read my post on emes. I also know how to make a succa. I have made many in my time. Did you really think that that was my question. Do you think i am dumb. Or do you think all FFB are. You have a condescending attitude to men. This shows through on all your posts. This is not considered a Jewish attitude however true it may be. In orthodox Jewish practice there is no equality of the sexes. The man is supreme. The woman is there to help him achieve his perfection not hers.
When i said catholic i didnt mean it literally. I meant you came from wanting more meaning in your life. More spirituality. I wrote this on emes as well. After reading more about you, I may be mistaken, it seems you were looking for truth, which is not exactly the same.
You found it in Judaism and settled for the easiest type of it.
About your shidduch prospects, considering your army background I would have thought an israeli would be more your type.
You write he has to bend. Did it ever occur to you that you may also have to. It is no use looking at others, who are better off, one has to make the most of the life one has. And as you write they are also still single, it hasnt helped them.
September 27, 2010 12:34 AM
Michaltastik said...
Chaim,
Nope, didn't read it. I'm crazy busy with school. I don't think you are dumb. I'm too busy to go running around to find out what you mean. I assumed you thought *I* didn't know how to make a Sukkah. I don't have a condescending attitude towards men. However, I don't appreciate the condescending attitude that men like you have towards women. The man is not supreme. Hashem made woman out of the man's rib... you know, his SIDE, not his foot so that she should step on woman and not the head so that we would rule over man.
I don't see how you say I settled for the easiest type of Judaism. I'm Orthodox, not Reform.
Why would I be right for an Israeli because I was in the Army? My Army service was like going camping to an Israeli and the US Army is different. That sounds to me as dumb as the people who set up a guy and a girl because they sneezed in the same direction or something stupid like that. Besides, the ones in the states are all fat and disgusting.
It has a occured to me that I have to bend. I went from looking for a guy up to 3 years older to being open to 10 years older. My requirement of looks is that I don't want to hurl when I look at him. That includes chubby men (but not rotund), men with gray hair, and balding men. You should hear the FFB girls my age. They want a guy who makes more than they do when they make 6 figures. He has to take them to Broadway plays and have a car and so on. Also, see what another commenter said after you wrote this. The guy wants this that and the other thing when it comes to women. If I didn't require Kosher and Shabbos, I could do very well by men.
Hey, should I go off the derech so I can marry a decent guy?
“The man is not supreme. Hashem made woman out of the man's rib... you know, his SIDE, not his foot so that she should step on woman and not the head so that we would rule over man.”
ReplyDeleteIf you read the parsha this week you would see that after eve’s sin a man will rule over her. I wrote supreme in a different context.
You are not orthodox you are modern orthodox, which would be classified as reform a few centuries ago. That what you consider reform ‘Jewish’ really proves it.
What I meant by bend, is not accepting someone ‘older’ than you at all. I meant something entirely different.
“Hey, should I go off the derech so I can marry a decent guy?”
I am sure that question occupies your mind all the time. But I would advise you to remember you are 35 I understand and have only ‘just’ converted, and have not previously found a ‘decent guy’, or one you would have wanted to marry.
I suppose the truth is that you originally looked at Judaism as the greener grass. You read many books (most likely the wrong ones) about it. And now you realize the truth. That for all their ‘religiosity’ they are really obsessed with money, more than any other religion.
"If you read the parsha this week you would see that after eve’s sin a man will rule over her. I wrote supreme in a different context."
ReplyDeleteYou must be Chasidic because outside that community women rule the home. Just a note that THEY were not considered Orthodox a couple centuries ago, either.
"You are not orthodox you are modern orthodox, which would be classified as reform a few centuries ago. That what you consider reform ‘Jewish’ really proves it."
Reform Jews don't keep kosher. They never did. I think that you need to read up on this stuff before you running your mouth and making yourself look like an idiot.
"What I meant by bend, is not accepting someone ‘older’ than you at all. I meant something entirely different."
Oh, really, what?
"But I would advise you to remember you are 35 I understand and have only ‘just’ converted, and have not previously found a ‘decent guy’, or one you would have wanted to marry.
I suppose the truth is that you originally looked at Judaism as the greener grass. You read many books (most likely the wrong ones) about it. And now you realize the truth. That for all their ‘religiosity’ they are really obsessed with money, more than any other religion. "
I'm 34, not 35. Actually, men were and are all over me, but they are not observant Jews. If I went off the derech, I would have no problem finding someone. However, I want a Jewish home.
BTW, aren't you a BT? Which means you don't have yichus, either.
The comment about Chasidic women not being the foundation of the home is completely ignorant. The innate spiritual enlightment of women, as well as their status as the akeres habayis, is just as true in our community as it is in any other. Whether or not you feel that personally from your strolls down 13th Avenue is another story.
ReplyDeleteAlso, Chaim, you call two years, "just"?
ReplyDeleteBee Zee,
No, it's that the men in BP don't allow the women into to the Sukkah. It's that women don't even go to shul on RH in BP. It's that chasidic men are usually the most sexist. Like for example, this Chaim 1. Furthermore, I know women rule Yeshivish and MO homes so Chasidim are the only ones left and Chaim here insists that in his world men are supreme.
Sure, I had women in the sukkah with me at each and every meal during Sukkos. In addition, shul was packed full of women by every tefillah from Rosh Hashana through until the end of Shabbos after Simchas Torah. Your assumptions and process of elimination leave much to be desired.
ReplyDeleteChasidic are not considered 'orthodox' by me today either. I am FFB not BT, whatever gives you that impression. Do you or dont you consider 'reform' Jewish? Make up your mind, and what has keeping kosher got to do with it. Do you or dont you believe in the 'curse' of chava(eve). Do you want a man to look up to, or one who should look up to you. I thought your 'two years' were spent 'learning' about being Jewish before you converted (wasted in my opinion). What took so long? One can become a 'rabbi' quicker! Click my name for more about this. I suppose you mean non-frum Jews are all over you. Let me warn you they wont keep you long. Their 'passion' wont last. You may be something 'new and different' for them, but not for long.
ReplyDelete"Never wrestle with a pig. You both wind up in the mud, but what's worse, the pig enjoys it."
ReplyDeleteOne is that I think a lot of what frumkeit is today is not required by the Torah. For example many thing we do are derabanan. And many of these rabbinical laws (derababan) we know the reason for, because the Gemara explicitly states the reason for the rabbinical decree (gezera). And we also know the reasons for many of these decrees (gezerot) no longer exits. And it is an argument among the mediaeval authorities if a derabanan still applies if the reason for the law no longer applies. The Ravad and the Rashbam and the Tosphot all over Shas hold the Deraban no longer applies when the reason is gone. (Besides the machloket in betzia I saw recently some gemara that holds openly that the law no longer applies.—but I did not write it down at the time so I forgot where that Gemara is.)
ReplyDeleteThe reason this is ignored today is the Rambam that hold even if the reason for the law does not apply the law still applies. But the rambam is in general ignored when it suits people. (For instance kollels are against the pesak of the Rambam that is forbidden to take money for learning Torah.)
This means that if being frum in every detail is causing you to not find a decent guy, then perhaps you are being strict about things that you really don’t need to be strict about. And no one is telling you this well kept secret that you might not be gaining any points in Heaven for keeping many of the laws when the reason they were instituted has vanished.
You could look up the relevant material in Tractate Beitza if you want and not depend on what I am saying. (In the Gemara this is a debate between Rabah, Rav Yoseph and Rava)
Pig-I mean Chaim,Thanks Armchair!
ReplyDeleteWell, why don't you state what you are. If you aren't Chasidic then I don't know. Because the three main breakdowns of Orthodox are Chasidic, Yeshivish and MO. MO and yeshivish aren't strongly anti-woman, especially MO.
"Do you or dont you consider 'reform' Jewish"
WTF? Are you retarded? Reform Jews are Jewish, but I don't consider myself Reform. What kind of narrow views do you have if you think one cannot acknowledge a group of which they don't consider themselves a part?
"Do you want a man to look up to, or one who should look up to you."
Why would I look up to a man who treats me like garbage? In happy marriages both partners look at each other with warm feelings. The family I stayed with for yontiff, the husband spoke with such love as he stated that he renovated the house for his wife and he wanted her to be comfortable. The wife was proud to have a man who was a head of the household who can support his family. Women aren't going to look up to a bum who expects to be supported by a woman or a guy who can't support himself, let alone a wife.
"I thought your 'two years' were spent 'learning' about being Jewish before you converted (wasted in my opinion). What took so long?"
Unfortunately, rabbi's make good candidates wait a long time, but those who are not serious are converted right away. What can I say, rabbis are men and they lack judgement.
"I suppose you mean non-frum Jews are all over you."
I said that.
Oh, and I thought you were a BT because your real name is ALAN.
BTW, Pig-I mean, Chaim, is there a point that you are trying to argue or are you just hurling ad hominems at me?
ReplyDeleteYou evade as usual my question, a familiar thing on blogs.
ReplyDeleteYou converted i understand for 'religious' reasons, now do you consider reform religious. All right put it another way, do you consider them better than catholics or whatever you were before.
I said you took the MO route it being the easiest, you said you could have taken an easier one i.e. reform do you still stand by that. A woman is allowed to change her mind.
The original reformers kept more yidishkeit than the MO today. Google Saul Berlin and Mendelsohn.
You evaded the question if you wanted a husband to look up to or to look down at. Or maybe you never understood it.
Speaking with love to your wife is not the same as looking up to her.
I also asked if you 'accepted' chava's curse. Or believed in it.
Is it a secret what you were wasting your time doing for two years before you converted, it is something i am interested in.
On my blog i shall perhaps discuss it more.
I seem to be providing entertainment for your viewers i hope you have many
I seriously had to stop reading that blog after a while. At one point I tought that Rav Harry was a pretty moderate guy. But I wanted to vomit every time he had a "woman-themed" posting and it was a bunch of men responding. Women's responses were tokens and barely tolerated. I can't stand it now and don't have the time or inclination to care what these insignificant men need. So, he's long been retired from my blog list. XD
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, as Armchair QB noted, you're wrestling with a pig who apparently has something against converts. Maybe one of us broke his sad little heart long ago and he's never fully recovered. ;)
Alan, you are spewing out fallacies, as usual. Reform Jews NEVER kept kosher. That's why the conservative movement was created. Now speaking of evading questions, what the hell are you, since chasidim are the ones who hate women and you say you are not chasidic. It's not a matter of are Reform Jews better or worse than Catholics or Protestants. What kind of thinking is that? You do realize you sound like a 5 year old on the playground saying your daddy can jump higher than mine, right?
ReplyDeleteYou also don't seem to understand that it's possible that men and women don't have to have one look up and the other look down. You have such narrow thinking. I hate to ask this, but, have you maybe been in a terrible car wreck that caused you to not function properly because you don't seem to have the critical thinking skills of a teenager, let alone an adult. Maybe you're, you know, not well.
"You also don't seem to understand that it's possible that men and women don't have to have one look up and the other look down. "
ReplyDeleteThe gender linguist Deborah Tannen has remarked on this. She mentioned some case of a woman on a program saying "we don't have to be looked down upon", and a man calling in and screaming, "you women, you're just trying to put us men down so you can be on top!"
A book on Shalom Bayit came out in Monsey about mutual respect between spouses. One rather right-wing rabbi criticized the book severely: "even HAMAN knew that 'each man should dominate in his house'" ...
Jewish tradition is very respectful of women. For example, Abraham was told by G-d to listen to Sarah. I just can't see how that "men are supreme" fits with Judaism. In fact it sounds way more like medieval Christianity. I don't think anyone who really understands Torah can say that, even though I'm not a rabbi so I can't say for sure.
ReplyDeleteAs for a woman "having to settle" because she's 35: wherever I have read about the "shidduch crisis", it seems like it affects men too. And I have heard countless times how matchmakers and rabbis speak against matching up men with younger women. It seems much more sensible to go out with someone of one's own age and I think it has, in general, greater potential for a harmonious marriage too. Now I don't know what really happens in the world of shidduchim because I have been lucky enough to fall in love with one of my best friends who's a religious Jew like me. I do know that many women feel very bad for not finding a husband. There is so much pressure to get married and so many sad stories (although with happy endings too. Just check Aish.com!). However, although women have the biological clock, also men are more likely to have children with Down's syndrome with advanced age, or become infertile, and besides men are the ones who are commanded to have children, not women AND men are the ones who need a woman whereas women can get a heter to conceive through IVF. So in the end men and women are both in this "crisis" together because it affects both.
As for your comment on Reform Judaism, most people practicing it are halachikly Jewish and consider that to be their tradition so I can't see why you couldn't call it Judaism. It might not be right in terms of halacha but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Finally, attacking someone with insults in a public space to me seems both violate the prohibitions of lashon ha-ra and embarrassing someone publicly, as well as being unkind to a convert, who all Jews are commanded to love. It is not the way a true Orthodox Jew should behave, although of course everyone makes mistakes.
Since we are not allowed to listen to lashon ha-ra, let's not, shall we?
Michaltastik, you're so brave! Thank you for that!
I just realized, Chaim is a chareidi bum in Israel. I looked at the time stamps of his comments. He's from a world where men don't have any education in anything but Toy-rah which explains the lack of critical thinking. I guess now, I'm the one making ad hominems... oh, but it's **MY** blog.
ReplyDeleteI shall reply to you on my own blog for the reasons given there and not here.
ReplyDeleteThis guy is terminally pathetic. Just sad.
ReplyDeleteYeah! He went away on his own. He thinks he can just spew out his opinion authoritatively and people will bite. No one agrees with him. What's funny is that he's all over the place and not consistent. He never answered me, "what the hell are you?"
ReplyDeleteNow, on to other things... like school
I love the "curse of Chava" line. Personally, I happen to think the curse of Adam also applies--you know, the whole "earn your bread by the sweat of your brow" thing. Sorry, guys, that doesn't include sitting in yeshiva with the A/C off.
ReplyDeleteThanks Aztec Queen!
ReplyDeleteYeah, they don't even earn their bread. They expect their women to earn it as speech therapists and then they leave the kid with cut rate babysitters who do things like leave the kids at home alone and traif up the kitchen.
ReplyDelete