Those Who Say Don't Marry a Ger/Gyoress II

The original poster over on the Daas Torah blog has commented on my original post. So, I am posting my response to her. However, I'm also using that longish response to begin a new post on the same topic.

Over and over again, I hear that parents object to a potential shidduch between their precious little FFB and a gyoress (or ger). Usually the reason cited is that they don't want to deal with in-laws who aren't Jewish. Well, what if such parents don't exist? I mean, what if the potential shidduch's parents have both passed on? This also destroys the argument that you have to worry about interference from non-Jewish grandparents. I suspect, though, that no man would look at my profile on Frumster long enough to see that even if it were in my profile. They would see "convert" and that would be enough for them.

Now, moving on to the "revocations," the number of these revocations is few and far between compared to the number of conversions out there. I, as a convert, wanting to take the side of the one who's conversion, often find it hard to, as usually the rabbi has a good solid case for revoking the conversion-the conversion that should not have happened. I'm glad that I went through a beis din with a pretty solid reputation. I know that the girl who converted at the same meeting as I did, has already married IN ISRAEL. She sent her papers over to her now mother-in-law who took them into the beis din where she lives near Tel Aviv where they were accepted on the spot without questions or anything.

Also, if you think about it, an FFB could be blacklisted in the same manner that gerim are "revoked." Rabbis could suddenly refuse to give references for them and a community could speak about how they fell off the derech and they, too, would no longer be able to do anything in the Jewish community (like get an Orthodox mohel or get their kids into an Orthodox school) if they came back on the derech.

When BTs come back, they are questioned. I was told by a BT that several people have accused her of being a gentile who didn't want to convert. Where's her proof that she's Jewish? Why didn't she read Hebrew? I've also heard of BTs who got rejected for Aliyah.

Finally, when someone's precious little FFB is over thirty and still not married, perhaps one should consider that a gyoress might be a viable option.

aml's story

Reposted with permission from the comments section of Emes Ve-Emunah


I too fell in love with Judaism over a decade ago now. I spent three years learning and growing before I was finally converted. About six months after my conversion I was introduced to my husband, who is Israeli. We got married in the States and moved back to Israel together. We were married by a diyan from the RCA, who also provided me with extra paperwork for the rabbinical authorities in Israel. After we arrived in Israel, we went to have my conversion and our marriage “recognized” in the eyes of the Rabbanute. This was the single most humiliating experience of my life.

I was standing there, long skirt, long sleeves, hair wrapped up in a scarf, with my new, kippa sruga- wearing husband, in front of three heredi rabbis. We also had two of my husband’s kippa sruga- wearing friends who were there to “testify” that we are married and that they were aware of my conversion.
The rabbiam didn’t make eye contact with me. They spoke to my husband as if I wasn’t even in the room and basically compared me to a whore (and for the record, I was a virgin when I got married) and asked him why he’d bother marrying a convert. I looked at my husband, his mouth open, not sure how to answer them. Were these even serious questions?

I broke down into tears. The rabbiam were shocked. Maybe they didn’t think I understood, I don’t know. Maybe they thought I wouldn’t question them. I looked all three of them in the eyes and asked them, “Do you really think you represent anything having to do with God?” And I walked out.

A few weeks later we received two letters in the mail. My conversion and our marriage were officially recognized on their “holy” eyes. To this day we both regret going to them for their recognition. To ask for their recognition was to give them authority.

The background on Israel's problem

Courtesy of a commenter who didn't know what the problem is, I posted this response then realized it warranted being another post.

The PROBLEM is that there are not 2,000 but, over 300,000 "Almost Jews" in Israel who are not halachically Jewish and don't want to be. These are primarily patrilineage Jews from the former Soviet Union. However, there are patrilineage Jews from other countries, as well as converts with conversions good enough for the Law Of Return, yet not good enough for marry and bury in Israel.

These "Almost Jews" live, breathe, think and celebrate their Jewish year the same way that other secular Jews do. They don't keep kosher and Shabbos. However, they have a seder for Pesach. They celebrate Chanukah and high holidays. This is what plenty of secular Jews do. They are indisguishable from a halachically Jewish secular Jew. However, they are not Jewish due to a technicality.

This is a problem because there is now assimilation taking place in the Jewish state between these masses of "Almost Jews" and Jews. This is why they have overturned so many conversions from Rabbi Chaim Druckman. Originally, the solution was to convert them but since they don't want to be observant, they just sort of handed over the conversions after a they learned a little more than they previously knew.

Currently, non religious marriage and burial is not available to these people. What are these people to do? They aren't Xtians. They aren't muslims. They do not wish to marry and bury under either of these auspices. I guess you can say they are noahides, however, they grew up thinking they were Jewish and so, they are more Jewish than a regular noahide. However, the matter still remains, they are not Jewish.

I have the solution to Israel's problem!

Right here. That's right. I've got it!

Create a separate state for non-halachic Jews. They can meet each other, marry each other, bury each other in their own cemetaries.

Maybe, that's a little too much... What about creating a new religion for them? It would be the Jewish religion of non-halachic Jews and give them an infrastructure. Let them marry and bury each other. They can start an online dating service to meet each other. I just don't know what to call this new religion... Jewahides?

In this suggestion, they wouldn't be physically separated into a separate state. In the other suggestion, they would.

So, what does everyone think?