Tuesday, August 11, 2009

Vox Poopoli...

We're all arguing here with this self proclaimed respresentative of the populus... come on over, it'll be a blast.

This person says that he (or she?) is not an American... do tell where art thou?

It seems interesting this non-American should be stating how the Americans think and feel. Amongst the yeshivish Jews (my friends), most people are not in favor of Oh, bomb us! However, this person keeps bringing up that many Jews did vote for him. I don't dispute this but, really WHAT KIND of Jews? Certainly not people I know!

7 comments:

  1. >Amongst the yeshivish Jews (my friends), most people are not in favor of Oh, bomb us!

    Mine neither. In fact, I don't have any friends, nor know of any American Jews who wants "us" to be bombed. (Who does "us" refer to, anyway? Americans, Jews, Israelis?) In any case, I don't recall ever advocating bombing anyone.

    >However, this person keeps bringing up that many Jews did vote for him. I don't dispute this but, really WHAT KIND of Jews? Certainly not people I know!

    Clearly, you don't know too many Jews. Give it some time.

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  2. I prefer not to associate with the sort that would vote for Oh, bomb Ah! Thank you very much.

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  3. Gamil Malik Al-AliAugust 13, 2009 at 1:26 PM

    This is sort of a stupid argument. No one wants to bomb anyone except for crazy extremists in any life. The Palestinians are not "refugees" as previously noted, they were expelled from Jordan for trying to kill King Talal. It is insane to suggest that anyone wants to bomb these innocent refugees, when neither assertion is true. Also, it seems to me that Vox Populi lacks a basic factual education. The state of Israel doesn't owe its founding to the UN, it owes it to Holocaust guilt. This is also a major reason that the US supports Israel so much by the way. A read of Golda Meir's autobiography will show this, but then again Vox Populi is a microcephalic pissant who also seems to be suffering from a possible case of acephaly and probably has no idea who Golda Meir was.

    Also on the issue of what kind of Jews voted for Obama. Obama received 80% of the Jewish vote amongst Jews that identify as Conservative and/or Reformed. He got 15% of the vote of the Orthodox Jews. I understand Vox Populi wants to seem superior but one can know thousands of Jews and not know any Conservative/Reform Jews thus not knowing anyone that voted for Obama in the Jewish community. The Jewish community doesn't have a monolith to it. Clearly Vox Populi doesn't understand anything about the Jewish community and should apologize to you for the whole you don't know many Jews give it time comment.

    In Jordan the idea of a 23 state solution has been discussed and I am still trying to find the exact outline of it, I saw it briefly discussed a while back on CNN. I hate CNN but what the hell. The 23 state solution involves the 22 Arab states recognizing Israel and a Palestinian state being created. After all currently there is a Jewish state and Palestinian homeland. There really is a Palestinian state of course, but we won't rehash the issue of Jordanian descent, it is interesting that Queen Rania is a Palestinian...but no there is no Palestinian state.

    I would challenge Vox Populi to go and read the Belfour declaration before commenting on these issues. I would also challenging this individual to go and read the previous accords. Camp David, Oslo, Y, etc. in order to better be educated and have a more intelligent discussion on this topic.

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  4. >He got 15% of the vote of the Orthodox Jews.

    I've been looking for this sort of breakdown. Could you please tell me where you got this from?

    >I understand Vox Populi wants to seem superior but one can know thousands of Jews and not know any Conservative/Reform Jews thus not knowing anyone that voted for Obama in the Jewish community. The Jewish community doesn't have a monolith to it. Clearly Vox Populi doesn't understand anything about the Jewish community and should apologize to you for the whole you don't know many Jews give it time comment.

    Well, that's one reading, I suppose. I do enjoy feeling superior, but that wasn't the intention of that particular post. That being said, I think I know something about the Jewish community. For instance, while I assume it's possible "to know thousands of Jews and not know any Conservative/Reform Jews", I would find it exceedingly unlikely. Even I, an Orthodox Jew with a relatively sheltered upbringing have had occasion to come into contact with my non-Orthodox brethren. In any case, the statistic you offered suggested that 15% of Orthodox Jews voted for Obama. Now, while 15% is not a majority or anything, it's a significant chunk of the Orthodox community. If you knew a lot of Orthodox Jews, it's very likely you would know at least some Jews who voted for Obama. Thus, if you don't, I would think you don't know too many Jews. It's kind of ironic that you're accusing me of describing the Jewish community as a monolith, when I have been arguing that there are in fact some Jews who don't vote Republican, and that we are not bad Jews for it, while my opponent here has been first assuming I was a gentile for voting for Obama, then a bad Jew, simply because I did not "toe the party line" with regards to American Jewish voting. I am not suggesting any monolith, merely that one can be a good and conscious Jew and still not believe that Obama is the beast himself.

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  5. >The Palestinians are not "refugees" as previously noted, they were expelled from Jordan for trying to kill King Talal. It is insane to suggest that anyone wants to bomb these innocent refugees, when neither assertion is true.

    I don't know where you are getting your information from. There were hundreds of thousands of Palestinian Arabs in Palestine before the Jews began massive immigration there. At the time if the First Aliyah, the Arabs outnumbered the Jews 10 to 1. They are not an artificially created refugee population. They are not a whole bunch of Arabs imported from outside.

    >The state of Israel doesn't owe its founding to the UN, it owes it to Holocaust guilt. This is also a major reason that the US supports Israel so much by the way. A read of Golda Meir's autobiography will show this, but then again Vox Populi is a microcephalic pissant who also seems to be suffering from a possible case of acephaly and probably has no idea who Golda Meir was.

    OK, well it depends on how much weight you give to cause, rather than effect. The Holocaust certainly provided motivation to many of the countries to vote in favor of partition, but the Jewish State would not have received international recognition without the UN resolution. When I say the UN helped usher the modern State of Israel into existence, I'm not denying the role of the Holocaust, just like by saying that the Israeli War of Independence caused the State of Israel does not deny the role of the Holocaust.

    As an aside, Golda Meir's autobiography is only a good source for informing you what Golda Meir was thinking the day she wrote it. Autobiographies, especially ones that touch on complex foreign policy machinations, are almost never very accurate, aside from the information you could pick up in any history book.

    >I would challenge Vox Populi to go and read the Belfour declaration before commenting on these issues.

    I did read the Balfour Declaration, and have spoken about it on this very blog. Do you disagree with my interpretation?

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  6. Listen POOP,
    I admitted that I know people who voted for Obama. What I said was that most Orthodox Jews who I consider friends or shall we say, my circle... did not vote for the bombah. However, many of the converts and conversion candidates I know did. In fact, the support from converts and candidates is astonishingly high.


    "I don't know where you are getting your information from. There were hundreds of thousands of Palestinian Arabs in Palestine before the Jews began massive immigration there."

    According to the Arabs we killed many of them.

    "I do enjoy feeling superior"

    Aha!

    You know, poop, you could start your own blog and put whatever comments you want on it. -sigh- Oh, well, my friends are enjoying arguing with you so, I guess you get to comment here.

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  7. Gamil Malik Al-AliAugust 17, 2009 at 12:45 PM

    I can tell you have never read the book that you would take that stance, if you did read the book you'd have known better, but I understand it is a deep seeded need to feel superior. Lots of men suffer from that and it leads to a stumbling block for progress. The website for the voting, this report is a different one, but unlike you I have sources so I am including them. It is interesting that you ask for sources but don't feel compelled to cite any yourself. This report has Obama getting a slightly higher than 15% vote for the Orthodox, but it is going to have to replace the original one (the original one is probably in a box somewhere between my moving).

    Evidently I disagree with your interpretation of Belfour, but that's OK. I have an International Relations degree I tend to disagree with people on their interpretations, something to do with all that time in the classroom. (I typed the link in by hand so if it doesn't work let me know and I will go back to the Jeiwsh data bank site and look for it. For some reason cut and paste didn't work.

    http://www.jewishdatabank.org/Reports/American_Jews_and_the_2008_Presidential_Election.pdf

    To answer your second question, where am I getting that the Palestinians were expelled from Jordan for trying to kill Talal. They have these amazing things called history books, although I do have some sources outside of the books...unfortunately the sources outside of the history books are classified and I can't give you access to them. They are however, extremely reliable sources. Perhaps if they ever come to NYC and you can be civilized I might introduce you to one or two of them.

    It is just like Black September, Black September tried to go against King Hussein and King Hussein had to deal with the problem. Course they are now a historical footnote.

    I do feel sorry for the Palestinian people they keep electing leadership that makes bad decisions, and these poor mothers that are losing their children to suicide bombers.

    Anyway, I don't want to play with your small mind anymore so I am done leaving comments for the moment. You really have demonstrated to me how uneducated Americans really are and it depresses me.

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