Monday, April 11, 2011

sweet but unknowingly humorous advice part one of two

There's a non- Jewish wise older woman from school that I've had discussions with about things like why do some Orthodox Jews live in denim and others say denim is bad. So when Chaim1 made that assisinine comment the other day about denim is cheap, I put it through and sent her an email telling her, I guess now we have our answer. While she was at it she read all three sections of the actual post. She also thought that these were my experiences and not those of an acquaintance. I posted it because for a while I felt much like the poster. However, I think I've put my foot down more than my guest poster who told me last night that she has realized she needs to put her foot down.

Those dating experiences were really bad. You are an attractive person and interesting and smart. You do not need to be taking a bus to meet some loser! Do you think maybe you need to expand the scope of men a little more? I'm thinking of a professor I know at -edit out area college other than my own- who might know some people. He grew up in an orthodox household but now i'm not sure he is orthodox. he follows kashrut and other regulations.

hahaha, I have to tell her not to bother. He'll just look at her like, "silly shiksa trying to help someone. Converts aren't real Jews." However, he'll smile real nice and tell her he'll let her know if he thinks of anyone. Maybe he'll offer a man who turns out to be blind or a 50 year old who does not have a job and lives with his mother which he would, of course paint to me as charming and wonderful.

i think if you do things you enjoy doing you will meet Jewish men. maybe they don't always have to be orthodox?
I've tried Conservative/Conservadox. They also look down on me as a convert but this baffles me since these men will go out and date a non-Jewish woman and bring her in for a conversion.

i could try to ask some people i know if they know anyone. what are you looking for in terms of the man's background, etc.?
Look at that, she isn't Jewish and she knows about the almighty "background" question. She's not as out of the loop as a born Jew would see her as.

What about men that are outside the US? Canada, Europe, Israel? Maybe if you have broader scope you will at least start meeting more interesting people.

I have actually recently started considering guys I wouldn't have before, like Israelis. Though, I don't even do out of town like my guest poster does. The Jewish population is roughly split in three. A third in the NYC area, a third in Israel and a third everywhere else. If I can't find someone in the NYC area, then I can imagine that I'm in trouble.

If you fall in love with someone he or you can relocate.
fall in love? Oy, now she's back not understanding Jewish ways. I'm actually dead set on not leaving NYC. I'm studying for a field that primarily exists in NYC.

I think an excellent place to meet men would be graduate school. Half the students will be male, a lot single and some will be around your age.
Now she's got it again. Though, I think men my age are already married.

Men who are recently divorced with a child or two would be good people to look at, serioius about remarrying and probably more honest and straightforward with less time to waste.
I thought the same thing, but have found they aren't so serious. There's one guy I went on one date with but I see him in FB chat as online all the time and I'm not going to be the one initiating chat with him all the time, so I stopped. He never chats me anymore so I take it he's not interested, or at least not interested ENOUGH.

what hobbies or activities do you really like?
A lot! Going to the gym, art (drawing and computer art)... when I was in the Army we all went bowling all the time... I like intellectual stuff, too.

you want to meet someone interested in at least the same types of things. Are you interested in learning a language?
LOL!!! I was originally a double major Spanish/French.

Maybe join a penpal or language club where you can exchange letters with others. I have a friend who met her husband that way learning italian. he was italian and living in london. he ended up transferring his job to usa and they are married. they got to know each other over a year like that. writing. doesn't mean you can't still meet others but maybe finding something like that where you can exchange information and interest around a certain topic will allow you to meet more interesting people. i think you should identify these kinds of areas of potential interest and then be active. be on linked in and participating in groups and discussions. start to meet a broader range of men. don't worry at first if they are jewish or not.
The poster actually does all kinds of things like volunteering and such, it doesn't work.

it woudn't be bad to know people and develop friendships. these people can introduce you to jewish guys. and someone could convert.
She has no idea of the hoops one jumps through to convert.

or if he wasn't jewish would it be the end of the world? as for modesty, follow your own beliefs. you are attractive and you don't have to be showing off in that way. a nice guy will recognize that and appreciate your values. that is my preliminary advice.

I agree with that. I'm too pretty to dress like a whore to get a guy. Futhermore, I dated MUCH better guys before I converted. Most were only interested in sex not a relationship. Though, I'm finding the same thing in the Jewish world. Since I converted, I've only dated one or two guys who both didn't live at home AND had a job. I'm not looking at yeshivish but the guys I've been set up with usually don't work. The last date I had, the guy had a disability. The girl didn't tell me about his disability, but told him that I was a convert. "Why did you convert?" came out of his mouth before we even got to the counter to order. He didn't have a job but instead spent his days "volunteering."

Hey, if I have to make good money because it takes two incomes, how come all the men don't have a job and I'm supposed to support them? Women make "pin money" as we discussed earlier on the blog here.


  1. I'm the guest author. Thank you for your lengthy comments. I greatly appreciate your time and effort in responding

    I have tried many of your suggestions. I have two graduate degrees and good amount of credits beyond that. I work in sciences which is male dominated, but tends to be not religious and not willing to be. I have dated men with disabilities and was treated horribly, as they/or their families wanted better, ie. not a convert. In the years since, I've seen many of these men still on the online dating services, refusing to settle. I would not want to re-establish contact with these men but would be open to meeting other people with certain disabilities that were ablee to support theirselves.

    I can vouch for Michal's experiences of traditional/conservative men looking down on me as a convert but open to non-Jews. I had a reform/conservative background prior to Orthodox conversion. I did have a kosher style observance of kashrut, and did observe shabbat in a traditional manner, so I was refining my observance when becoming Orthodox much like a BT. There was no orthodox community in my town, so that's as Jewish as I could be until I could relocate. The men and their families thought little of me. Yet, I did see the men marrying non-Jews with a token conversion and raising their children in a dual religious environment. The families would be happy with this since they didn't have to give up their treyf and Saturday shopping and clubbing and got their Jewish daughter in law. I would be upset when these men called me wanting 'quickie' conversion information when it took me years and relocation to get a proper conversion. The myth of older men and divorced with children men being more serious, I haven't found to be true--I have found they want a physical relationship while they look for the background they want.

    I have given up on out of town men as they will not travel to NYC, even though often they do have family or friends they could stay with. The times I've traveled it was because I had a place to stay. I am not looking to relocate right away again unless it is where I have family--I do have some family in South Florida for the time being. New York is the center of Jewish life in the US and I'm reluctant to give up again to live in the middle of nowhere where living Jewishly would be difficult. Meanwhile, the man is not sacrificing anything they have their friends, jobs, home in place. Getting a job in their area which in smaller cities would be difficult for me, not to mention the expense of moving is significant just for a whim of a relationship. I would consider moving in the future if their was a solid relationship and the man wanted to be a traditional breadwinner.

    I promised to uphold halacha to the best of my ability. As such I will not date/marry a non-Jew. I realize that it means I'm going to be basically a Jewish nun.

  2. Thanks for the idea-Jewish nun. I am 68, one practicing orthodox Jewish woman in a rural city of l5,000 non-Jews. Years ago I lived on the northwest corner of 14th Street and Seventh Avenue. Spent a lot of time at the Grateful Dead concerts at the Filmore East. Owned a gourmet restaurant, catering service and bakery at 242 Street and Broadway--Van Cortland Park. New York's gone. So's my spirit.