Tuesday, April 5, 2011

To wish upon a skin... part two

Guest post by anonymous... continued

Recent actual example: I hosted two Bais Yaakov grads last week that were dating men in the area and wanted to spend Shabbat together. Around my age, and one was very similar in appearance and build to me. The girls arrive to my apartment wearing skinny jeans, that show off their shape nicely and short sleeve t-shirt under their heavy jacket. Their Shabbat outfits had V-necklines, their hems were a few inches above the knee and really they could have used the next dress size larger for a modest fit. They were nice outfits for someone secular, but very inappropriate for frum women.
Yet they were the girls dating nice guys and having fun, basking in male attention, while I was rotting away alone. Over dinner I heard about their great dates and fun things they get to do. Their dates rent cars to pick them up, they go to expensive restaurants, shows, clubs, charity events, etc. Nothing anywhere near this has happened even once with me and they get this treatment all the time??? I wanted to just die right there I felt like such a freak. No one has any age-appropriate shidduch suggestions for modest convert me. I've asked, and all I get is empty promises to help me, but never a follow through with a suggestion of someone that's my age and in the ballpark of religious. I'm sure someone will suggest another wonderful shadchan. I don't need more shadchans, I need actual man that wants to date and is serious about marriage.

In the last 2 years, I've met just 4 men for dates, none through shadchans (again, no one respects me wanting to date around my age). I've had oodles more men that like email exchanges and chat on phone but don't want to meet—time wasters. My last date was early last summer, the jerk showed up 50 minutes late in rumpled clothes, and didn't even offer me a drink at Starbucks before he quickly left because he was so tired. The two dates I had the year before, I traveled out of town for both for hours on a bus, one guy forgot his wallet when paying for a slice of pizza. The travel was longer than the date, not to mention my expense. The other guy, a bit outside of my age range, I met at an outreach center where I stayed over shabbat. Well, for our 'date' after shabbat he invited me to partake in the shul's kiddush leftovers because going out, even for Starbucks would be a 'waste' since there's a coffeemaker at the shul. He wanted to date again and I declined. I'm still hearing about I let that latter wonderful guy get away. The fourth guy in 2 years was so awful it would require a separate post.

To be continued....


  1. chaim1 says
    Mazeltov. For once you answered me normally. Youre improving. But you still have some way to go. You have to sort yourself out, what exactly you want to be. Do you want to be MO or the real thing. After that your shidduch will 'automatically' come.

  2. I know I am going to get flamed for this, but...what's so terrible about older men? Some of them have an intelligence and maturity that's impossible to find in younger men (I'm not a shadchan, just someone who found that my bashert was one of the older, wiser ones.)

  3. Oh, Chaim1, I wish it were so easy.... silly boy! I'm MO

  4. chaim1 says
    Silly girl! If youre MO then go dressed like MO. You cant very well go dressed tsniusdig like 'satmar' and expect an MO husband!

  5. I do dress like an MO. I almost always wear a knee length jean skirt with a sweater in the winter and in the summer/spring a tank top over a shell.

    I just don't go parading around like a whore in red lipstick and fingernails like some do.

    anyone can dress skanky, I don't get why skanky is supposed to make a girl pretty.

  6. I'm the guest author, thanks for your comments. For the record, I would self identify myself as Yeshivish Modern. Modern because--The shul I go to, majority of men as weaing Black hats. The other shul I go regularly, more men than not do. People have tried to set me up with single men there, but either the men don't like my background or maybe the shadchan never followed up.

    I do not own a TV, but I do use Internet extensively since my work is web related. I do have multiple graduate degrees (which wouldn't fit with less modern) and don't understand much yiddish but have learned a little. I give a higher priority to learning hebrew better.

    I don't go to movies often, once or twice a year to see a disney type cartoon. I do keep in very good contact with my family (which is one parent, two brothers and a few kids) which I've been told repeatedly I would have to cut off if I went more religious under fear my family would be "bad influence" although they never have been anything except supportive of me but just because they are gentile.

    I'm sure you realize, it would be quite uncomfortable for an single older woman to be in a more black hat environment where all the other woman of my age have children old enough to be teenagers and those that don't are met with strange looks. An older friend and I do actually wear hat out if we're in those neighborhoods walking around to avoid the very uncomfortable stares and whispered comments.
    I also do not own a denim skirt either, but that is more because I don't like the rough feel of denim and like softer fabrics.

    The men I described in the posts in my recent (recent=few years) dating would identify theirselves as either Yeshivish Modern or MO Machmir (i.e. they grew up MO, but are now more religous then their family but stay on good terms). I am open to someone that is less religious that is working towards being fully observant. I am not open to someone posing as shomer kashrut or shabbat but get away with it because they were raised FFB. This is what I've run into frequently

    I do go to shuirim more often that are geared towards BTs or MO since a yeshivish background isn't assumed and there's less jargon and more explanation. Since I'm considered garbage by shadchans, I have to try to met men somehow. Also women's shuirim tend to focus on a husband and children I don't have (and at this point unlikely won't have) That of course I recognize is a trade-off I make.

    As far as older men, I found the ones offered to me have perfected being irresposible, spoiled and lazy, still living with their parents or being supported by them, marginally employed (no they aren't learners either. Not to mention often out of shape and starting to get age related health issues.. This is a problem for someone that has been self supporting since 19 and has had a difficult path in life.

    Yet I'm told how stable and wise old men are because they are older and now want children therefore must have younger man. The ones I've come across aren't, but more like overgrown teenagers that wasted their 20s, 30s, 40s behaving much the way their are now.

    The 'good' older men that became availabe due to divorce, widower, or becoming BT tend to get snatched up quickly and certainly not offered to a convert when there are better quality girls looking. I would consider a responsible older man, but have not found a serious minded one despite all what shadchans market these men as.

  7. It's guest author again. Wanted to clarify the 'older man' comment. I do not want to be set up with much older men that are supposedly so fantastic and successful but must have a much younger woman. Truly successful men don't need to be hard sold like that, there's no shortage of available women for such a man. If these men played around in their 20s, 30s, and partway through 40s or longer and insist on a younger woman because they now want children, I'm not interested in being little more than a breeder for them. That's not a real relationship.

    What I meant was if I met a man that was older than I'd like through natural means, i.e. through volunteering, work, just normal life activities and developed a connection, I would be open to pursuing it. That's totally different scenario than being pressured.