Tuesday, December 22, 2009

Why do Orthodox Jews think they are entitled to insult people?

I read and comment on the bulletin board over at End the Madness once in a while. Well, recently, I posted something about how I thought I was very reasonable as I am willing to go up to ten years older than myself and that since I look ten to fifteen years younger than I am that's really all I can do. Someone comes on saying that I should post my Email in case some parties are interested. Ok, so, I go with it and post it.

What do I get in my Email box? First off, the name doesn't match who asked me for my Email in the first place. Second, he tells me he can set me up with a guy 13 years older than me (doesn't say if he has kids), also that he (the email sender) has to meet me first, which I thought was a little strange. I said, "no, that's too old." The response to this was that the sages deemed women my age-34-as unfertile and therefore I should be greatful that he offered to help me. Also, I was told that my looking younger than my age.... that since the years caught up to him, they will catch up to me, too.

What the heck? Where do these men get off? This is why I don't try to get married anymore. I didn't even go to this man, he came to me from an offhanded comment on site to discuss dating, not a solitation for dates. These men think they are G-d's gift to women and G-d's green earth. In the secular world, men told me how beautiful I was and how young I looked but, hey they were just trying to sleep with me.

I stand by the statement I've made before, men do not want to get married. Furthermore, religious single men are hypocrits. They will only date that which is way out of their league and then they call themselves observant. Men are obligated to marry and have children, not women. When men spend years dating women out of their league, never giving great women a chance because they are always deciding they deserve better. Is it really going to kill men to consider women 5 to 10 years younger than themselves instead of trying to hold out for 15 to 20 years? Are men going to curl up and die if they marry a size 10 instead of a 2? The answer is no. They are looking for something to brag about marrying and not someone with which to be happy. I really think this is a big contribution to the divorce rate. If you marry someone based on how much you can brag to people about whom you've married then you are not likely to find someone who is compatible, will make you happy and support you emotionally for many years.


  1. Hey, where did that comment go? Someone agreed with me that it's ridculous to say that 34 is too old and we can't have kids. My great-grandmother was almost 40 when she had my gram and it was much more rare back then.

  2. A woman's fertility declines after age 27, and a pregnancy over the age of 35 is considered "geriatric". A 2002 European study concluded that the odds of getting pregnant were twice as high for women under 27 as compared to women over 35.

    Sorry, its not just a conspiracy against you, its the cold, hard truth.

  3. The bigger question is that men wait until they are over 45 and then they start worrying about their obligation to have children. Also, just because some survey considers it geriatric doesn't make it impossible. Every woman is different. Women in my family were always quite fertile.

    Incidentally, I checked with my rabbi and there is no age given in the gemara for which a woman is too old to marry. I think that's why most of these men divorce, they want to use this as an excuse to run after younger women.

  4. Of course there is no age that qualifies someone as "too old" to get married. No one said that there was. The guy simply (perhaps quite ignorantly) insinuated that since the Gemara (as well as modern science) note that women began to have difficulties getting pregnant, they should jump at any chance to settle down and start to have children, and not worry about who they do this with.

  5. It's an insulting statement. I don't care how you slice it, it's disgusting to tell a woman, "you take whatever dirty old man crap I offer you and be grateful."


  6. Your post should have been titled, "Why did one of my readers think he was entitled to insult me?"

    Don't you find the term "out of their league" insulting? Are there different leagues? Aren't we all just humans? What defines one as out of your league? A waist of 44 inches instead of 34 inches? Isn't that kind of talk and thinking exactly what you are complaining about in your post?

    Anyway, what's the harm? He offered to set you up with someone and you said no to the match. It doesn't sound like he's much of a matchmaker, but at least he tried.

  7. Because he offered me someone that he knew darn well was out of my age range and then he insulted me when I said no.

  8. Also, this was not one of my readers who said this. This was a guy from the End The Madness Bulletin Board.

  9. youch! I dont think its fair to paint every woman over the age of 3o with a broad brush stroke. Every woman is different,my mom got married at 24 or so and had 8 kids over the years and had one at like 40 something ,comon pple get your heads out of your tuchuses.

  10. And I know girls who are in their early 20's and can't have kids but, I had an "accident" when I was 28!

  11. I agree that relationships generally work better people of the same age range, but I've met a lot of women (over the age of 25) that prefer guys 10-15 years older then themselves.
    One person's attempt at being blunt is another's insult. I had people say pretty rude things to me, but I recognized that they weren't trying to be rude. They were just trying to be honest and blunt. (Not that that makes the sting go away or makes their words true.)
    It sounds like he was trying convince you to give his guy a try, so, unless you feel he said that to hurt because of "sour grapes", he probably was trying to make an honest (in his mind) argument to convince you.

    P.S. Being infertile isn't a bad thing. To many men, a woman who can't get pregnant is very attractive indeed!

  12. Duly corrected on the title post. (Though, the point still remains.)

  13. It is true that fertility declines at age 27, however I don't think that's the main sticking point in the post. The main sticking point is these people are nosey busybodies that think everyone should fit into their little box. Settling for a spouse is what contributes to the divorce rate, take my ex-husband he told me that I was "Supposed to completely change after the wedding" that kind of thinking contributed to our divorce. If people want to be helpful in finding our dear friend here a match they should look for someone that meets her standards and he should have standards that she meets. The essence of a good match is not here take this man and kiss my feet for the effort. It is beyond insulting to say this to someone.

    Furthermore, pregnancy after 35 is high risk for Down Syndrome as well as a lot of other complications it should not be entered into lightly. Having said that though there are lots of women that have healthy babies after age 35. People should stop this idea that you need to settle down and have babies and who cares who they are with. Babies deserve better than to be brought into a home where they are resented or otherwise abused because their parents just settled down to have babies without a thought.

    Michal, just ignore these people. Clearly you're out of their league. I am sure if you want to get married you will find the appropriate man, or better yet he will find you. We never know what life will bring or from where it will come.

  14. We understand the mitzvah that is involved in arranging a shidduch. But at the same time people need to realise that just because a person has reached a certain age or point in their life does not mean because they are not married nor have they had any kids does not make a deem a person to be infertile.

    Rebecca touched on some great points. If two people feel that they can build a home together and feel they are indeed compatible (a suitable match) then these should be some of the reasons for deciding to Marry. Marrying someone with the hope and intentions of changing everything about them will lead to resentment and ultimately divorce.

    The same goes for dating or even marrying someone with whom you have absolutely nothing in common with.

    Both men and women know what they are looking for. Some people may feel we are being too picky for holding out and refusing to settle for anything less then we deserve.

    There is nothing wrong with mutual friends suggesting a possible potential date to someone. But we also must take into consideration what that person is looking for (in a potential spouse) to start with before making any suggestions.

  15. And the guy's comment was actually:
    "Another point is that according to Jewish law,
    a man who has no children should not marry
    a woman above age 34 because it is assumed
    she will not be able to have children."

    See, if the sages said this, I think they were talking about divorced women who maybe had actually been trying to have kids, not women who have always taken extreme precautions NOT to get pregnant. Even if the sages made such a comment, this would have been in a time when birth control didn't exist. Furthermore, I forwarded the comment to my rabbi and he agreed with me. He said that if a man is too old to attract a woman of child bearing age, then he must marry a woman that he can attract.

  16. Which means that a man should be realistic when looking for a potential spouse, rather than trying to obtain something quite obviously out of his league.

    So what have we learned from all of this? Suggest potential dates to people whilst taking into consideration what he/she is looking for.

    Do not assume that because a women has passed a certain age does not deem her to be 'infertile'.

    And furthermore sensitivity needs to be applied accordingly to situations such as these rather than people jumping to such rational conclusions about why individuals are either not married and/or have not had any children.

  17. That guy's comment is totally out of line...and not even true. I know women who married in their late 30's and got pregnant very quickly. I know of women who had healthy, normal babies even in their upper 40's (even met a woman who had a baby for the first time at the age of 50, after a having a second marriage).
    but seriously, some random dude who comments on a blog? who says he knows what he's talking about? he's not a rabbi or scholar. for all you know he's just a crazy nutcase, and if you met him in real life you'd never even dream of taking anything he said seriously.