Perhaps, you guys are following the comments on my other posts. Anyhow, there is a discussion right here on this blog. I mentioned that it BUGS the STUFFING out of me that people can be all about judging Tropper favorably and YET they can make comments about how the converts are insincere. Or, NO ONE met someone and when they find out a convert or in the process, they decide it's THEIR personal duty to make sure you are fit to be Jewish. Examples of people who do this are: potential dates that ask a battery of personal questions before the date, people you meet at a shul kiddush or at someone else's house, or people who having you over without knowing who you are first-perhaps a friend, rabbi or hospitality committee made the arrangement.
So, NO ONE has had this happen to them?
The Curmucgeonly Israeli Giyoret says:
ReplyDeleteAnd aside from those who have a real need to know regarding status authentification, THIS IS A PERSONAL MATTER. For those who were not brought up to be religious exhibitionists, this is even more personal than money or sex.
Tropper is one of the Old Boys; he can use sexual harassment, cheat on his wife, solicit women, and everybody is supposed to judge him favorably.
THANK YOU for someone finally saying something. If you look at the string of comments on the other blog post, you can see that although, I state I was questioned at a Shabbos table, (by a rabbi who vouched for me-no less, this was BEFORE EJF came into his life.) BeeZee keeps talking about how it might be someone's business. My post was NOT referring to a situation when it is anyone's business.
ReplyDeleteI think you are right that what is personal in the goyisha culture (religion) is not in the frum world.
I hate being asked about my family over and over again, too. And they don't stop asking when I tell them, "everyone's dead." WTF?
The Curmudgeonly Israeli Giyoret says:
ReplyDelete"I hate being asked about my family over and over again, too. And they don't stop asking when I tell them, "everyone's dead." WTF?"
This is actually more blatant than demanding probing personal information regarding your conversion. Either these people have been so sheltered that they have developed no capacity for empathy for others, or their mamas and first-grade teachers just never taught them any better.
When I catch myself musing about how much better my life could have been without my peckelach of sorrows and how the wisdom suffering brings is a gift I could do without, I think about these clods.
Thank you, Hashem, for my nisayonot. His wisdom is truly higher than my own
There is a time and place for everything but NO one should be put on the spot, especially at a Shabbos table of all places for people wanting to know 'why' someone chose to become Jewish.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure after a few rounds of Jewish Geography one would come to the conclusion of not putting someone on the spot. As intimidating as some questions might be... the line needs to be drawn at what is and what are acceptable questions. It comes down in my opinion simply to etiquette and plain old common sense.
People are curious, that can not be helped. But prying into someone's private life is truly uncalled for.
I have dated several giyuros and they have seemed happy to tell me their story. I suppose a dating situation may be a bit different (and as a BT I also have a story about becoming observant). However it struck me that perhaps I'm not being sensitive enough and should first ask if the woman is comfortable telling me her story. Thanks, I can learn from this!
ReplyDeleteNo one converts to be a CONVERT. We converted to be JEWISH. That is all I have to say. I would never ask someone how munch money they have in their checking account. That is very personal and NONE of my business. I am a normal respectable woman and it amazes me how rude people are. I was at a Shabbos table once and there were some visitors from out of town. They had no clue or suspicion that I was a convert. There was an Israeli woman from the community there as well. While dessert was being served out of the blue she asks me in front of everyone, "So when you converted did you do your boys too?". I just said Yes- why do you care to know? and she said she was just curious. Then the other family simply asked me "oh, so you converted??" I said yes and the subject was changed. After that the visiting family did not seem as friendly. They were from Brooklyn and visiting for some reason in Texas. I of course I am not so rude to ask them why they were in town. Not only was it none of my business ,I just did not care, especially after their snide remark. It was just the tone. My heart goes out to the BT's as well. From what I have heard most (not all) FFB's assume BT's have had drug or alcohol problems or run in's with the law. The longer I am Orthodox, the less repsect I have and the stupider and more ignorant I feel many of them are.
ReplyDelete